This is an edited excerpt of my conversation with tech journalist for the Back Row podcast. You can watch or listen to the full episode on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Follow the show so you don’t miss a single episode. If you like the pod, please leave a rating and a review, which is the best way to support it right now.
Last week on the Back Row podcast we heard from fashion critic Rachel Tashjian, who recently left the Washington Post for CNN, about the dysfunctional state of fashion media. Creators and the fashion establishment continuously seem to be in conflict as influence continues shifting toward creators.
Rachel and I agreed that Vogue is still relevant, but that brands have some soul-searching to do about how to engage in the town square that is social media with the masses. Lorenz had a different take on all of this. Here’s an edited excerpt from our conversation that gets into The Row and the viral open letter, Vogue World as a social media strategy, and more.
The Row had a sample sale in New York and it became a viral sensation. People lined up for it overnight and hired line setters to hold their spots. Many shared haul videos, like, “I went to The Row sample sale, and I got these pants, and they’re only $800,” and they’re just plain pants. People then made parodies that were hysterical because these clothes, for the most part, looked either normal or not really so great. This is hilarious to me because The Row is supposed to be too good to be online — they don’t even let you have your cell phone out at their fashion shows.
This reminds me of the 2000s, and this obsession with brand. People just wanted the brand on things. I went to the Balenciaga sample sale eight or nine months ago, and it was the same thing. I was like, this stuff is crap — now I’m never going to get invited back — but it was kind of similar, where I was like, Do you need those socks that look totally normal? But they want the brand.
It’s really funny that that’s happening to The Row because, like you said, that’s a brand that seems like it’s above that.
People are paying thousands of dollars for that stuff because it’s too good for social media. That’s what people are buying into. You can’t tell what it is, but it’s The Row.
To me, that is the same as buying one of those Louis Vuitton Neverfull things with the logo all over it. You still want that logo on the inside of your cashmere sweater or whatever, because you care about the logo.
I guess my real question for you is: What happened with the sample sale is antithetical to the brand, but they can’t control that, right?
No, and I think that that’s increasingly true for all of these fashion brands. They can’t control their images, and that drives them insane. They do all these stupid things to try to control it, but they can’t because this crowdsourced social media vibe determines, ultimately, a brand.
That’s true for all corporations these days. I think it’s just really hard for fashion brands. The high-fashion ones, at least, are always trying to position themselves as elevated, elite, and removed from social media. This is why when social media started, they were really hesitant. It seemed tacky, and so they would do these Instagram grids that were really boring — the nine photo thing that just had their logo.
Some of them still do that. When Gwyneth Paltrow launched her new clothing brand Gwyn at Fashion Week, that’s what she did.
That is insane that that’s still happening.
I think she’s stuck in the 2010s, her brand.
True. Her brand is very 2010s.
Also with The Row, Neelam Ahooja wrote a viral open letter to The Row —
I missed this drama. I really pride myself on seeing all drama.
You can easily catch up. It’s not like Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni where you’ve really got to study. But in this open letter, she talks about how the brand didn’t really support her supporting them. She was buying it and talking about it online, and she says that The Row got in the way of her talking to the Wall Street Journal about her fandom.
Here’s one part: “You tried to control me, to dictate my work to downplay what I’d built, and all the while you profited from my efforts, but the hardest part was that you became increasingly and unforgivably rude. Your charm was beguiling and performative.”
But don’t you feel like this could be written about any fashion brand?
Yes. This is why I’m Back Row. I hate this idea that with fashion, you have to be in the club and it’s elite and nobody can talk about it or be involved in it. I wouldn’t expect anything else from a brand that sells snobbery as blatantly as The Row. Someone also told me recently that St. Laurent DM’d an Australian creator to be like, “Stop tagging us.”
That’s so funny. I wrote about this in my book [Extremely Online] about fake ads. That has been a problem for a lot of luxury brands — people pretending to have the sponsorship and they actually buy the product and then unbox it like it’s a gift. But you can never acknowledge that. I talked to one brand person who was like, “We hate it. We un-tag, but to acknowledge them would be to give them so much clout.” So that’s crazy to actually reach out and say, “Stop tagging us.”
Is there any amount of money that they can deploy to control this kind of thing?
No. I think that everything is subject to public opinion online now. I think they can definitely mitigate it, but ultimately you’re dealing with the public, and they seem to have this hostile and resentful relationship with the public because they didn’t previously have to deal with the public for most of their existence.
You need to figure out how your brand can operate in our modern information and media ecosystems.
I think my take for creators is, if you build your life around trying to be in the club and be accepted by brands, you will only set yourself up for disappointment.
Well, you’re just giving them the power, and what’s the point of being a content creator? This is how I feel about the tech stuff too. What’s the point of being an independent person if you can’t say what you think and do whatever you want? If you’re still beholden to these institutional powers, whether they’re corporate brands or media companies, then you’re not really that independent. They can cut you off. Case in point with The Row. They can cut you off at any time. If your influence comes from sitting front row, getting access, being invited to these things — they hold the power.
André Leon Talley gave everything he had to fashion and had, I think, a lot of hurt. Anna Wintour really hurt him, because one day you’re in and the next day you’re out, and that happened with him. I think that if you set your life up like that and you live for this world and just want to be on the inside, you are only going to end up hurt and disappointed. The only person who has lasted — the only one — is Anna Wintour
But she’s going away.
She’s not going away. According to my recent reporting, she stepped back from being editor-in-chief of Vogue, but what that really meant is that she was passing off the magazine on someone else so she could do other projects.
Vogue itself is not as relevant as it was 15 years ago. I would argue these people’s cultural power is declining. Maybe she has 10 more years left in her. If you [ask] a zoomer today or a 13-year-old, they’re just not idolizing [her]. Look at the reaction to The Devil Wears Prada 2 trailer. I get that in the fashion world, she’s this big deal, but I think in broader culture, that brand is declining and I think the relevance is declining. Also, she’s tied herself to all these evil people that the tide is turning against. If you are worried about Anna Wintour, it’s like you’re chaining yourself to the Titanic.
Did you read the Wall Street Journal article about Vogue World? That’s their big thing that they’re doing to be relevant.
Oh my God, yes, because I had friends who were there, and it was the most random thing alive. What even was that? They were inviting a lot of random people to that.
It was the fourth one. It’s like a fashion variety show.
Well, clearly they needed people to come, because in L.A., people were like, “I’m going to this Vogue World thing, does anyone want to come?”
I’m sorry for besmirching Vogue World. But Vogue World doesn’t make any sense to me.
It doesn’t make any sense to the audience.
Good luck to them on that.
It’s video content. I think that’s the strategy at Condé Nast — “We’ll just come up with ways to create video content for social media and that’s going to save our business.” Is that a strategy?
Not a winning one. Then they’re competing with everyone else on the internet and they’re not as good at it.
What did you think of The Devil Wears Prada 2 trailer?
This whole magazine world is so weird. I interned at Harper’s Bazaar in 2007, and I remember being like, You guys are so old. You don’t even have a blog. The website wasn’t even on, and that was almost 20 years ago. That world was dead already back then, and now 20 years later, they’re trying to act like it’s a thing. They should have set [the movie] in 1995. It feels weird. It’s like, this doesn’t exist.
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